S6. E7. Dominique Searle, Gibraltar's Representative to the UK

David Revagliatte meets Dominique Searle, former UK Editor of the Gibraltar Chronicle and Gibraltar's Representative to the UK. In this episode, we discuss his personal stories, political developments, and the history of Gibraltar's press. We'll explore Dominique's background in a family of journalists and his experiences during significant events like the Brussels process and the reopening of the Gibraltar border, giving you an insight into the foundations of Gibraltar's media scene. We'll also look at Gibraltar's current and future relations with the UK post-Brexit, potential trade opportunities with countries such as India and explore how local businesses can leverage commercial connections to the UK.

Later, James Barton joins the conversation to talk about the impact of 3D scanning technology. As the head of Barton Solutions, James shares how his company creates immersive 3D virtual tours, changing how we interact with and present spaces.

Thanks for listening to the Gibraltar Business Podcast by the GFSB! Follow us on Twitter, Linkedin and Facebook!

Transcript

David Revagliatte: 0:02

Hello and welcome to the Gibraltar Business Podcast. I'm your host, david Fagliate. If you already know the show, welcome back If you're just discovering the podcast. Hello and welcome. The Gibraltar Business Podcast is brought to you by the GFSB and is sponsored by Gibraltar International Bank, an institution that shares our passion for business.

David Revagliatte: 0:19

Today's first guest, dominic Searle, was a household name when I grew up thanks to his time as editor of the Gibraltar Chronicle, a role he held for 20 years. In 2014, he joined, in his words, the other side by becoming Gibraltar's representative to the UK. It was around the time the UK voted to leave the EU. We discussed pivotal political moments, both past and present, and what they mean and meant for business in Gibraltar and meant for business in Gibraltar. Later in the episode, we meet young tech entrepreneur, james Barton, who tells us all about his 3D scanning services and his company, barton Solutions. Dominic, hello and welcome to the Gibraltar Business Podcast. Thank you for having me. Honestly, I'm a bit of a fan here and it's going to be an honor that you're on the podcast. I've grown up with your name around the house as a as a young guy growing up in gibraltar um, mainly through your work with the chronicles. So, honestly, thank you for joining us. It's a pleasure, thank you. You served as editor of the gibraltar chronicle for over 30 years, am I right?

Dominique Searle: 1:19

no, I was. I was in the paper for 31 um and I served as editor just under 20 years. So yeah, it was quite a from 1996 to 2015.

David Revagliatte: 1:33

Okay, so what was it initially that attracted you to journalism?

Dominique Searle: 1:39

I suppose the most obvious thing was that I was born into a family where my father was an editor. Thing was that I was born into a family where my father was an editor. So my day-to-day life was spent really sort of hearing what was happening, being in the middle of it, and it was slightly unique because it was a very different Gibraltar. My father's background was he was actually born in Devon in the UK and came to Gibraltar because he this is a long story but the short one is he had to come over with the Army Education Corps and serve here and that's where he met my mother. He was an arts person and he had done sociology and then he became. He joined the Chronicle, became editor.

Dominique Searle: 2:17

But it was a complex time when the Chronicle was still technically owned by the trust of the military members of Gibraltar, of the officers, of the serving officers.

Dominique Searle: 2:25

So there's a whole transition of that newspaper which if you go right back to the beginning, it always reflects the changes in the society. So as it went moving along it sort of civilianized a little bit. Then the ownership changed and newspapers obviously sort of places in turmoil. So I was living in that turmoil but also living, I mean, you know, on the one side my mother's family, the Ninos, who sort of everybody knows some of them anyway and on the other side my father. So we were living in sort of UK premises because they were attached to the newspaper in those days, but also living both lives. So it gave me an insight into a lot of things. But I remember a lot of events like the riots in the 60s and the closure of the border, all those sorts of things. That was my childhood and listening to sort of you know that brought me to it. My actual study at university was literature.

David Revagliatte: 3:23

So I mean, you know, it was like the stars were destined for you to fall into this as a career right.

Dominique Searle: 3:32

I guess I've always enjoyed writing. I've always enjoyed being involved in things. I found that my background helped me to be detached sometimes, which is important. But at the same time, you know, I was the first year of comprehensive. I think that was quite sort of we were part of an experiment, because I always remember we were supposed to do the 11 plus. I was, you know, I was probably a bit lazy and then I sort of spent the summer cramming and then the day I got back to school they said no, there's no 11 plus, you're sitting out a year. So that whole year sat out a year, which was sort of made up by the schools, and we opened the Bayside Comprehensive as just one year.

Dominique Searle: 4:16

So that was a unique moment, if you like, of almost like two rivers coming together. Someone like me I'd been to Loretto and the Lionwall School People who've been to the other schools we suddenly found ourselves. Some of us knew each other anyway, but in some cases it was quite an interesting sort of experiment. Overall, I think it's actually been part of the improvement of Jib, moving away from that sort of quite oppressive Christian brother type education to the more modern education that we have now. So Gibraltar has always been an interesting place and being involved in the paper. I went back as a reporter I worked with at the time I think Francis Cantus was just become editor then. Francis Cantus was just become editor then and Jib was going into. It was my return was the very start of the process, the Brussels processes and getting into sort of that whole dynamic of change, the border about to open. It was still closed at the time, so it was a really interesting moment. So, yeah, I was pulled in by that.

David Revagliatte: 5:25

Your time as editor must have been interesting. Going back on those 20 years that you spent there, what were some of the major challenges you faced or major events that you saw?

Dominique Searle: 5:37

The biggest year and it was before I was editor. But the biggest year certainly for me was 1988. Almost everything happened in 1988. And to put it in context, in 1984, a year into starting writing, I became the Times stringer. So I was the regular stringer with the Times and in fact that was an important thing in those days because I mean, the pay was so bad, you know, in the Chronicle anyway, so you needed to do articles and that, so I was always searching around for stuff for them, and also I was doing a stringer for Reuters as well. I did those two until I basically until I left and the IRA incident was massive. And the IRA incident was massive, no-transcript. So you'd had Hassan for years.

Dominique Searle: 6:33

There was a short period with old Falkanapa and then Bosano came in March, you know, after the fifth or sixth the incident with the IRA. Then you had the whole Barlow-Klaus episode which brought Jib into the limelight. So everything was happening and I spent every I mean my wife didn't see me at all virtually because I was doing a lot of Northern Ireland radio, I was doing BBC radio, you know, because most of them they would send somebody out for a couple of days and then they wanted someone to keep up, you know reporting back and that, and it was so big that Canada was into it. I mean it was an odd thing because it was a very big story. But I think it was a different story for people locally in the sense that the international story was much more about the implications for the Thatcher government, what was going on there. I worked on the Death on the Rock programme with Julian Mannion. I was helping them sort of doing their inquiries and that, and there was a lot of sort of you know sort of doubtful people around as well. So you know, in those environments a lot of sort of you know doubtful people around as well. So you know, in those environments you try to keep your head straight on the story. And that's the story-wise In terms of local.

Dominique Searle: 7:43

I think we were always very, very sensitive, continue to be sensitive. But I mean then we'd just come out of a closed border situation, the talks that were ongoing with Brussels, the political tensions, the differences between you know what Bassano was doing and what had been going on before, and the sort of the UK's attempts to amalgamate all these things into a sort of a solution that they wanted. It was a radical time of change for the people. I mean, there's no doubt about it that you know, when you look at Bassano and I mean I used to have massive rows with Borsano sometimes, but what he did then was very significant because for the first time you had to be a full-time politician he took the reins of the economy that nobody was taking the reins of the economy and actually had a sort of a program of change. And sometimes I think he did the right thing for the wrong reason and the wrong thing for the right reason.

Dominique Searle: 8:38

But it was a fascinating time to be, you know, covering the news, engaging, and I would say that you know, for anyone who's in the newspapers, the relationship with the chief minister and the government is the most difficult because they can be quite oppressive and they're used to getting their way in their office, so they want to get their way everywhere. So that was also part of it. And then you get incidental stories. You know the Newells with the matricide-patricide from Jersey that were arrested and brought into Jib. I mean, there's so many different things. I think Jib is such a sort of location, location location.

David Revagliatte: 9:18

Moving on slightly, you mentioned earlier that when your wife didn't see you a lot of the time, did it ever get too much? How did you balance everything you had to do?

Dominique Searle: 9:28

A lot of long hours, probably too much time in the pub as well in between.

Dominique Searle: 9:34

I mean, look, you know it's, it's the printed newspaper today. Local newspapers, um are obviously struggling to some extent, um, and have been for a long time and it's it's a vocation. It's a vocation or wanting to know what's happening, being up early, finishing late. I can honestly say that as editor, I never finished before 10 o'clock, even on a normal day. It was difficult to get to any school events for the kids because you had to be up in the morning, because I used to go to court early in the morning just to see what was going on in court and cover that. I was a very small staff at the time. There was only two or three of us. So in terms of journalists and the paper, the production of the paper is late and if you don't oversee that, things come out wrong and so forth. So you were permanently available.

Dominique Searle: 10:32

The arrival of technology was a mixed blessing. So, in the sense that, what did the mobile phone do? The early mobile phone meant that if I went to London to cover talks prior to having a mobile phone, if the foreign office was going to phone you, you'd have to sit in the hotel waiting for a phone call. With a mobile phone, you could go and meet people. You could do all sorts of things, so those game-changers that people don't always quite see, and to give you a sense of just cost and reality. When we first went through an agreement with Cable Wireless to receive photographs for the Chronicle and I always remember it was Hassan in talks with Jeffrey Howe, it was black and white and it was a huge machine with light-sensitive paper. It would take about 45 minutes for a photograph to come through and then if it had a line in it, you'd say send it again. The phone was running at 70 pm in it then, which was a huge amount. So things changed massively. I frankly found that, although that was very intense, time was different then as we moved into the late 90s.

Dominique Searle: 11:43

The first couple of years of Internet were fabulous because I was quite good at technology. I was using it a lot and a lot of places weren't. So I'd write a story about the EU. It was one of the first places to pump out information online. So I'd get great stories and contacts in the EU and the government would be very upset that I'd say actually, people can bring meat from Spain as a tourist. It's not banned completely and so there'd be an upheaval. But technology I think going back to the core of your question has made it much tougher, because there's a lot of noise, a lot of rubbish going out there and yet you've got to keep an eye on lots of Twitter X or whatever it is, and I think that is making it very difficult for people actually in the media game.

David Revagliatte: 12:33

Dominic, why did you leave the Chronicle then? Why did you leave the media?

Dominique Searle: 12:37

I think. I mean there was a whole series of factors I mean, on which I suppose age is one of them, for a while, for some time, certainly Peter Caruana's government I think it was Joe Holiday one day called me and sort of said you know why didn't you come and do the job? In fact, francis Passaway, he had gone to work in government and he said you know why didn't you come and do this job in the media and all that sort of thing? And I said look, you know, I'm not really interested, although it was obviously more attractive in pay, in a sense, being part of the paper. It's a sort of a sort of very strong pull and I also had an obsession of trying to keep the paper going until the 200th anniversary, to 2001.

David Revagliatte: 13:24

Which was when? Sorry the anniversary was 2001.

Dominique Searle: 13:29

It was 200 years, so it was 1801 that it was founded. So it was one of these things in my head that I think I needed to get to. But I mean, probably the most important thing was that actually, brian Reyes joined the Chronicle. He had had experience previously working for Lloyd's List in London and I mean, you know, I suddenly felt that I had someone who was the real deal. I brian is serious, he's very good, um, and I had been sort of folk really focused on on running the paper and restructuring it and that. And we'd reached a good place after some very difficult years where I've managed to, you know, lift the, the profitability and, quite controversially, I doubled the price overnight and saved the paper. I mean, I took the eventually, having struggled for a long time.

David Revagliatte: 14:19

I remember that.

Dominique Searle: 14:20

Myself and others had been. I mean, I took over the paper and I didn't take the new pay as head. I stayed on my reporter's salary for 10 years. So I you know it was a personal sacrifice and the rest of the staff had frozen pay for many years. It was very tough. The pension fund had to be scrapped, the old-fashioned retirement fund. So it was very difficult economically for everyone. And by the time we were getting into a good situation I was feeling that I didn't want to become a bitter editor, somebody just hanging on to things. And in fact the chief had, uh, asked me for lunch a couple of times over the years and sort of said you know the same thing. You know, why don't you come and work for us? And I said, look, I'm not interested. And one of them I said to him look, I'm not interested in going to the other side of what I do. Um, but if something you know ever comes up, like in london or something like that, I'd think about it seriously and that did come about.

Dominique Searle: 15:21

And a year and about a year and a half later, around one Christmas I mean Christmas 2014, it must have been he phoned me and said look, you know I've been thinking about it. Why are you willing to do this? So suddenly, you know, when most of my contemporaries at 55 were retiring to push their grandchildren in France, I guess and not all of them, but you know quite a few of them I took on a new job. The challenge was important, brian was really ready to be editor and I didn't really want him to get fed up either, you know. So in a sense, there was a constellation and I mean, like I mean, I think in gibraltar I'm sure a lot of people feel this, but um, I mean, it's very dynamic for its size and that, but actually opportunities to do exactly what you want to do. Um, if that door opens, I was say to people uh, don't think that it's going to open again six months later, because it might not you mentioned earlier the the other joining the other side.

David Revagliatte: 16:17

Is that what you see as what you do now?

Dominique Searle: 16:21

Yes, I mean. So there's different facets to the job, I guess, and to some extent because we're small, you know you get there and you more or less have to invent it. But I think there was change coming in the UK anyway. So, set aside that, you had the big event of Brexit, which really was quite dramatic for us. You sort of had changes in the way politics was taking place in the UK, the way people relate to each other, the type of people I mean, all those issues coming up in Westminster all the time, but often some of them scandals and that are really the result of out-of-date, out-of-time thinking against the way in which the bulk of that country and that grouping in Europe itself is thinking.

Dominique Searle: 17:12

And in that you know politics of Gibraltar, I think you know the aim was to move away from the sort of entertainment winning people over type thing to convincing them. Now you have to do everything because you want votes in Parliament. The core thing for me was that the year running up to Brexit, before I actually became the gib rep to the UK, was I spent a lot of time going to the think tanks, the conferences and just meeting the policymakers, because I took the view that if you just mix with the MPs, it's just what they want, or whatever. So, understanding who was really interested, uh, and then so we started once, once Brexit happened, um, it was, it was very dramatic. I mean, a couple of days after, after Brexit, um, I remember going down with with with the chief minister to meet Cameron, where he basically apologized for what had happened because he felt it.

Dominique Searle: 18:21

These things are important because now he's foreign secretary and we know that he has a sense of commitment to us, because he did feel what I think was a massive mistake, but nonetheless that's there. What I think was a massive mistake, but nonetheless that's there, you know, because they literally did not prepare for Brexit and there were instructions not to vocalize within the Foreign Office and all the departments. It actually opened a field, an opportunity for us to go directly to politicians, and so that's because we've been building on that We've suddenly got a lot of access to politicians, and so that's because we've been building on that We've suddenly got a lot of access to politicians, which has been invaluable in the sense of direct connect and building up relationships with people. Like you know, I mean Dominic Grieve, hilary Benn, I mean those sorts of MPs are fantastic because once you've got serious people interested in Gibraltar, who are concerned about the implications of Brexit for us and all that sort of thing, it's quite different to having people who I mean.

Dominique Searle: 19:29

Sometimes people think that having a lot of noise about you is important. Well, it might be if you're trying to sell an album or something, but actually, you know, one of the first meetings that we had after Brexit and we were trying to look at the strategies of how we were going to go forward. It was a joint. You know, I'm not giving away any secrets. It was, you know, the Foreign Office, the Gibraltar government. The remit to me at the end of that was clear and it was obvious to me.

Dominique Searle: 19:55

We didn't want to raise Gibraltar as a noise, we wanted to keep a low profile and get our core issues resolved, because we ran the risk then it wasn't totally visible, I suppose, from here, but it would have been very easy for people to make us of football as opposed to Northern Ireland. Yeah, and I remember even I mean, the Irish ambassador called saying you know, please, let's not conflate this. We don't want to conflate it Because you're in a very unpredictable environment where there are core things you need to protect. And I think you know, eventually I think people will understand that just preserving what we had in the relationship with the UK was huge. I mean, I think you know one writes books about the current chief minister In the future. You put out the achievements. I think that was massive and I think you know we could have easily found ourselves completely out of that direct relationship with the UK that had come through the EU.

David Revagliatte: 21:04

Going back to that kind of dramatic day. You know we're going to 2016. It's nearly 10 years on. Where are we now? What's your take on the agreement? These are big questions. I understand, dominic, but we you know, my listeners and we've all lived in this uncertainty and we're still living in this uncertainty, looking back on the last eight years. How have you, where are we now? What's your take on things?

Dominique Searle: 21:33

Look, I mean obviously I'm not going to say anything that I'm not supposed to say I might get a faster retirement than I'm expecting, but I think I understand that people want at least the sense of certainty, because I think actually, if you really look at Gibraltar life, what we've done since the days of Nelson is provide commercial responses to changing scenarios, and I think probably, if we have long periods of stability, we'd probably lose the art of what we really are, which is that capacity to change things. But the stability that we've had has been the best thing we could have in the process of the negotiations that are taking place to try and cement that stability so that, in effect, I think at the end of this, if things go as we want them to go and as we've been working for them to go, you end up in a situation where where, in real terms, probably in overall, in the long, in a better place than we might have been before I'm not saying in terms of the EU was also unpredictable and of course, brexit could happen at any time. Because you go into the EU, you can come out of it. So if we can achieve what we're trying to achieve now, I think that's a huge positive.

Dominique Searle: 22:55

But I completely understand people saying should I do this or do that or should I invest for this amount of time, and that I mean I think overall, one of the things I would always say is that we should. It's not about counting your blessings although I probably think that's probably useful from time to time but it actually is to see that Jib can take quite a lot of blows and carry on. We are dynamic and I think people are trying to achieve something that we will live up to and you know there will always be negative people. I remember when Main Street was first pedestrianized, commerce went berserk saying this was a disaster because people wouldn't be able to stop their car, pop into the shop and put the things in the car. I mean, you know that was the world and then it came along. It was the best thing that happened for people and for the shops.

David Revagliatte: 23:47

Absolutely, there have been, definitely for local businesses. For sure, we're operating with uncertainty. There are definitely some big wins, but sometimes it's just kind of like when is it going to happen? Are you involved with any negotiations? Do you know how close I mean? I do.

Dominique Searle: 24:04

On my side I mean I'm not in the transactions, the technical talks in there. My side of it is dealing with engaging with the parliament, with them explaining what's happening to them, supporting the chief minister whenever he's in London and so forth and the teams. But you know it's creating. We've got a lot of support in the UK. I think everybody, even the Spaniards, understand that it's not. We're no longer I mean we're not foaming at the mouth with Union Jack waving that kind of thing. We're seriously modern British people wanting to go forward in that way and I think you know even the UK has understood that. But you've also got to factor in something I said to you earlier, which is you've got teams going over to the UK.

Dominique Searle: 24:54

I mean the Foreign Office today is not the Foreign Office that it was 30 years ago. There are still people you know old school and that, but largely the people you engage with are equals. They've gone to the same universities, done the same degrees. They can't talk down to us anymore, they talk to us. That sort of engagement is important. I mean it doesn't mean we're always going to get everything we want. But I think you know, certainly the meetings I've been to which have involved the joint ministerial councils and things like that which we had immediately after Brexit. You know, what was achieved was achieved because there was real respect for the fact that we can do these things, that we have an educated population. It not just saying that you know we'll do something and then print it somewhere and say it's done. You know, it is a capacity we have thank you for discussion.

David Revagliatte: 25:46

I don't have any more questions. I've only got one more that I always ask, uh, all my guests, and it's comes down to advice. What's that? One piece of advice that you wish you would? You would have known sooner.

Dominique Searle: 25:58

Uh, when to?

David Revagliatte: 26:00

switch off. Yeah, we did touch on that earlier, dominic. I know that we will be following progress of the talks, progress of of, hopefully, an agreement over the next few weeks, but thank you for your time today and and um, if listeners want to hear more about your progress, of what your work is, where can they find out?

Dominique Searle: 26:22

it's difficult to say um. I think basically, you know um. Look, jib house for business people there's for a very low fee. We have facilities there which could be very useful in meeting rooms and so forth. Certainly um for commerce, because that's what you're about. Um, I think it's important that they know that. You know they need to reach out to anything that we can help. We will, we will help um. Certainly.

Dominique Searle: 26:47

I had um both the gfsb and the chamber, at a number of meeting, political meetings. I make sure they meet the, the core committees when they come over, because I think it's really important. At the end of the day, commerce is what we're about. But also in terms of, for instance, india is massively interested in Gibraltar. The Indian High Commission. We've got a big diaspora in Gibraltar. High Commissioner came out in December and met many other people. I think there's some business links emerging from that. So people have realistic I mean, we don't have things that we can give people in a sense but certainly we can help and if there's, you know, need to contact, you know had in the past contact with the Moroccan embassy to help people.

David Revagliatte: 27:30

So if they need to go through kind of any more official trade links or anything they could reach out.

Dominique Searle: 27:36

Yeah, I mean I think you know, look, it's always. I think anyone with imagination tries several routes and we can always be one if it's something that needs access or at least some understanding of a place, and we work closely with the Foreign Office on that. So it's not like it's not an enmity. I think we've gone through an era. The last, certainly the last decade has been one of being close and frank and working together, and I think that that's the desire of the UK government to a great extent. They've just launched a strategy refreshing the engagement with the overseas territories generally. We're special because we were part of Europe and we've kept that relationship, if you like, with the UK. We are in Europe, but we do also work together with the other overseas territories a lot. I mean I meet them two or three times a month. Okay, all right, dominic.

David Revagliatte: 28:33

Thank you for your time.

James Barton: 28:34

GFSB Member. Member spotlight.

David Revagliatte: 28:36

James, thanks for joining me on the podcast. Thank you, it's great to be here. You are a brand new member of the GFSB, right.

James Barton: 28:43

Yeah, very, very new. In fact, we joined just two days ago and it's great to see that since then, I've already been asked to do my shout out about my business. It's nice to know that, even though we've taken a bit of time to join the GFSB, we've been trading since last October.

James Barton: 29:00

So it's been a few months, but I feel like now is the right time. As you mentioned earlier, we've been seeing more around the local community. On Instagram especially, we've been pushing our marketing, so our brand is starting to be more prominent, and likewise, it's time to start networking in a network such as the gfsb I've worked with the gfsb for a number of years now and I know that it's a great network to be part of.

David Revagliatte: 29:23

So welcome, um. And I'm also on social media quite a lot because of the job that I do, which is marketing and communications, and you're on linkedin as well, so I've always had this since you started popping up on my feeds and stuff. There's a curiosity as to what you guys do. What is it that you guys do for the benefit of our listeners?

James Barton: 29:43

For sure. Yeah, and the kind of videos we post do bring up a lot of curiosity, because we show what we're doing, but if you don't know, it is a bit confusing. So, to sum it up, what Barton solutions offers is the full end-to-end range of 3d design services. So, to summarize, we offer 3d virtual tours. That is our main service and the thing you've probably seen most on linkedin so far, and with that service we're able to go to any space locally, so it could be a restaurant, a historical site, any space locally, so it could be a restaurant, a historical site, any space that has interest either to tourists or to visitors in any form, and using our advanced camera technology, we can create a lifelike 3D replica of the space online, which users are then able to easily interact with as if they're there in person.

David Revagliatte: 30:29

Okay, okay, I know, you know you lost me at 3D. I've been working in this for a number of years and how different is it to those maps that we've all seen that? Maybe you could do a 3D scan of a space, but it was very much. You still used it to navigate. Is there a 3D element to that?

James Barton: 30:49

so there's different kinds of virtual tours. What?

David Revagliatte: 30:51

you've just described.

James Barton: 30:52

Explain it to me like I'm 5 so that kind of virtual tour is the panoramic tour, which is what most people have seen on google street view. That's right, where you're able to navigate through a space. It's got a 360 image and that's good for a lot of purposes. But the next level is the 3d scan, which is what we offer. The cameras are panoramic cameras that we use, but they also have a lidar sensor built in, and the lidar sensor is a laser sensor. So, as well as the image data that you've just described, we also capture point clouds where we build an actual 3d model. So if you go onto our website, you can see numerous examples where you're actually able to view the building in a 3D dollhouse kind of view, where you can actually navigate around it from above and see the structure from a 3D outside perspective, which is only possible because of this laser technology. So it is, in fact, differentiated to the Google Street View.

David Revagliatte: 31:48

I guess that's what my maybe I don't know maybe some of my listeners would. Probably that would be how they associate that kind of technology. But you're taking it a step further, right.

James Barton: 31:57

Absolutely. Yeah. The whole goal of 3D scanning is that it provides much more utility in the way you can navigate the space. Google Street Views are inherently limited there's only so many points whereas ours we scan the full space, so anything you want to see within the scan space is visible. But, more importantly, it's very flexible so we can embed information within the scan. So, for example, if we're advertising a high value property, we could, on a certain expensive feature, such as a kitchen, we could embed information points speaking about the features which adds value to it.

James Barton: 32:30

So you can have pictures embedded, videos, text, audio. There's really no limitations and we do all of this in-house. We have a 3d designer who's able to edit actual 3d models and we have a team who work with the customer to actually embed this information. So, for example, we've worked with the tourist board and we've scanned the eisenhower rooms in the rock, which are, of course, within a data center. So so that's off limits, but we're now able to open that up to the public with the 3D scan. And we've embedded loads of historical information speaking about how the area was built and its relevance in the historical context Is that live?

David Revagliatte: 33:07

now Can people see that it's live right now.

James Barton: 33:09

Yes, so you can see that if you go on my LinkedIn you can find it, and also on our website. We have it in the our work section and, of course, on the tourist board's new visit gibraltar website. They have a dedicated virtual tours page with three of our 3d scans so far.

David Revagliatte: 33:24

That is a developing relationship as well, james, you started you. You set the company up in october last year. Yeah, no, you haven't. You haven't stopped, right? No?

James Barton: 33:31

we have. We've been non-stop, so I've started this. I I've started the business, and working alongside me is my longest friend, who's also our 3d designer. His name is jared vasallo. He is extremely talented. This, this person, jared, has been working non-stop for three years straight. If anyone goes to jury's cafe, they would have seen him there on the laptop for 12 hours straight just working, and working, and working, and he's genuinely incredibly talented. So jared and I have been putting in the hours since last october. Every day of the week, including weekends. We meet up and we keep developing content, developing our services, and it's got to the point now where people are seeing our dedication and reaching out to us to work with us.

David Revagliatte: 34:14

On that. Actually, thanks for joining me in the shout out today, but how can our listeners get in touch with you then?

James Barton: 34:20

Absolutely. So we are available in a number of platforms. If you go to bartongi, so B-A-R-T-O-NG-I that's our main website. It's got all of our services, how to get in touch. And if you want to see our social media push, which we've been pushing heavily probably more than most people in jib go to bartonsolutions on instagram and all of our work there. So every time we go to a site and we do the scans we actually capture behind the scenes of how we do it and we put that up for everyone to see our process. So those two areas are the best first way to get in touch with us okay, brilliant.

David Revagliatte: 34:54

Well, thank you for coming on to the Gibraltar business podcast. I have a feeling we're going to be meeting each other a lot more over the next few years, and welcome to the GFSB too thank you very much and, yeah, looking forward to the future and that's it for this episode of the Gibraltar business podcast.

David Revagliatte: 35:10

Thank you to my guests, dominic and James always. Thank you to the team at the GFSB, our sponsor, the International Bank, and everyone who contributes to the project and keeps the podcast going from strength to strength. Thanks to Matthew for the sound. I hope you've enjoyed listening. Catch up on any episodes you've missed anytime you like. So for now, it's a goodbye from me until next week. Until then, keep pushing boundaries, stay curious, listen to this podcast and never underestimate the value of persistent effort. Stay inspired and see you very, very soon.